LEILA FADEL, HOST:
President Trump says he authorized a covert CIA operation inside Venezuela.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
The president was answering a question about a New York Times report of that operation. Trump portrayed it as part of a pressure campaign against the Venezuelan drug trade.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We've almost totally stopped it by sea. Now we'll stop it by land.
INSKEEP: On Tuesday, the U.S. military struck a fifth boat, which the administration said was carrying drugs. The U.S. has built up forces in the Caribbean in a way that prompts questions about whether the operation involves something larger, regime change.
FADEL: NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez joins us to talk about this. Good morning.
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Good morning, Leila.
FADEL: OK. So, Franco, we've seen these strikes on boats, which legal experts have called a flagrant violation of international and domestic law. The Trump administration disputes that. And now we're hearing this threat of land attacks. What more can you tell us about that?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, the administration has been talking about the boat strikes for weeks. But yesterday, Trump actually took it a step further. When he was asked about the reports on the CIA, Trump appeared to say that he had authorized the spy agency to take action inside Venezuela.
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TRUMP: I authorized for two reasons, really. No. 1, they have emptied their prisons into the United States of America.
ORDOÑEZ: Now, the administration hasn't provided any evidence that Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro is sending prisoners to the U.S. And the second reason was the amount of drugs entering the U.S. via Venezuela. And I'll just emphasize that we don't know more details about this operation inside of Venezuela.
FADEL: OK, so tell us more about this military buildup because it's led to a lot of questions about whether Trump is on a dangerous path to a bigger military conflict.
ORDOÑEZ: Right. I mean, we're talking about a lot of military hardware, including destroyers and thousands of sailors and Marines just off the coast of Venezuela. Benjamin Gedan, who led the Venezuela portfolio at the Obama White House, told me that he doesn't think, quote, "anyone plausibly believes this is merely a counternarcotics operation."
BENJAMIN GEDAN: It's such overkill in this naval deployment that there could be no justification if all the United States is trying to do is to attack a couple of small boats and intimidate drug traffickers, right? It's either a bluff meant to scare the pants off the Venezuelan generals or actual preparations for some sort of war with Venezuela.
ORDOÑEZ: Now, the White House is defending its actions, saying Trump campaigned on a promise to take on the cartels and that he'll do whatever is necessary to stop the flow of dangerous drugs coming into the U.S.
FADEL: I mean, Franco, it seems really contradictory because you have this president who portrays himself as a president of peace and is pledging peace in one part of the world and then threatening military escalation in another.
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, I mean, it's really quite the pivot, especially for a president who sometimes is characterized as an isolationist and is definitely inward-looking. But I'll just add that Trump has used military force before, but it's been in more limited ways. I mean, for example, taking out the strikes this summer against Iran's nuclear facilities.
FADEL: But, Franco, the big drug concern is fentanyl, which is trafficked by land through Mexico. So why such a focus on Venezuela?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, Leila, Trump addressed this a bit yesterday as well. As we heard Trump say, some of this is about immigration and the number of Venezuelans who have entered the country. But these tensions date back to his first administration. I mean, let's just remember the context. Trump tried to topple Maduro in his first term. He spent a lot of political capital opposing him. Yet Maduro is still there. And as Benjamin Gedan told me, Trump may see this as a bit of unfinished business.
FADEL: That's White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez. Thank you, Franco.
ORDOÑEZ: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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