LEILA FADEL, HOST:
So how far can President Trump go when it comes to deploying troops to American cities? To discuss this, I'm joined by University of Chicago law professor Craig Futterman. He specializes in policing and public safety. Good morning, Craig, and welcome to the program.
CRAIG FUTTERMAN: Good morning. Thank you for having me, Leila.
FADEL: So let's start with that question. How far can the president go legally with what he plans to do in Chicago? Can he legally deploy the National Guard there?
FUTTERMAN: No. His threats to send troops to invade Chicago is a terrifying unconstitutional overreach. This is really threatening the use of the military against its own citizens, against the will of local officials. This is the kind of stuff of dictators and authoritarian regimes, fundamental threats to fundamental principles in America, the very things that make us America.
You see, our system of federalism is embodied by the 10th Amendment, which says that powers that are not expressly delegated to the federal government by the Constitution are reserved both to the states and to the people. Addressing things like local crime, that's left to local officials. The federal government doesn't get to come in and declare a takeover of Chicago police.
That's just not how our Constitution works. There's no act of rebellion or insurrection in Chicago, as you reported, violent crime's down. And so sending customs border patrol, which is the current plans, in residential Chicago neighborhoods, neighborhoods that aren't even located on any border or point of entry in the United States, as a pretext to deploy military on a great American city, violates our country's founding principles. And I expect that the courts will see the invasion for the pretext that it is, a power grab to retaliate against cities and states that don't support his political agenda.
FADEL: I want to ask something here. I mean, it hasn't stopped. The questions of the legal nature of this hasn't stopped him in other places. Obviously, is - D.C. is different. You know, it has this unique status as a federal district. So, legally, what the president can do here is different than what he can do in any U.S. state. But he also deployed in Los Angeles. They're appealing that ruling, that ruled that that was illegal. So these two moves, do they set a precedent for an increased federal footprint in law enforcement now across the U.S.?
FUTTERMAN: It's terrifying. There hasn't been anything like this since troops were sent in in the - at the times of desegregation to protect fundamental federal interest. And it - there are - a potentially disturbing precedent, and a precedent that I don't expect that courts will buy into because it violates these fundamental principles, is the - is that it's permissible and OK to use the military to conduct ordinary local law enforcement. As Judge Breyer recognized in Los Angeles, that's precisely when courts can step in. When called upon, courts have the power to act to stop the executive when it steps beyond its authority.
FADEL: Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, said Chicago can expect to see immigration enforcement action this week, and that could include National Guard deployments. Would immigration enforcement give the administration any legal cover to send in the National Guard without the governor of Illinois' consent?
FUTTERMAN: Yeah. That's precisely the strategy. And what I hope is that courts will see beyond immigration enforcement as a pretext. It's uncontroversial that federal law enforcement can enforce federal law. Immigration - federal immigration agents can enforce federal immigration law. But to use that as a pretext to bring in the military is something that's frightening and is certainly inspiring both terror and courage in Chicago at the same time.
FADEL: How do you think your city will react if military troops show up?
FUTTERMAN: Yeah. Well, I've seen both terror and remarkable courage. The president's declaration of war in Chicago, with, as you said, images of the city skyline on fire, it's terrifying. It's designed to inspire fear. But it's also bringing people together. People are coming together to say, not in our city. This is our red line. This is anathema to all that we hold dear as a city, all that we hold dear as a nation. And so what I expect is that the people of the city to stand strong and protect one another. I also expect the city and state leaders, who have long been preparing to fight against this presence, to stand alongside the people of Chicago and take legal action.
FADEL: Craig Futterman is a law professor at the University of Chicago. Thank you for your time and your insights, Craig.
FUTTERMAN: Thanks so much for having me, Leila. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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