Vermont’s independent senator, Bernie Sanders, has once again been criss-crossing the country, drawing tens of thousands of supporters to individual rallies.
This time, the barnstorming isn’t part of a presidential run, but rather Sanders’ “Fighting Oligarchy” tour.
Vermont Public’s Bob Kinzel sat down with Sanders last week to discuss the state of the Democratic Party, the future of the progressive movement and the real goal of all these rallies. This interview was produced for the ear. We highly recommend listening to the audio. We’ve also provided a transcript, which has been edited for length and clarity.
Bob Kinzel: You've had large and enthusiastic crowds at many of your “Fighting Oligarchy” events across the country. Do you think the issues that you're raising serve as a framework for Democrats as they approach the 2026 election?
Bernie Sanders: Absolutely. Why do we have an economy that only works for the people on top? And what we're seeing, Bob, it's not just progressives saying this. Literally half the people who come to our rallies are not my supporters. They are more conservative people, they're Republicans, they're independents. But I think there is a growing anger in this country in an economy that is not working for working people.
Bob Kinzel: Well, do you think that part of the Democrats’ problem is that some are also beholden to the influence of large-money donors?
The current campaign finance system is corrupt — underline the word corrupt.Sen. Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders: Do I think that that is a problem? I think that is the problem.
Look, it's not just an economy which is rigged. And again, whether you're a conservative Republican or a Bernie Sanders supporter, everybody knows the case.
The current campaign finance system is corrupt — underline the word corrupt. As a result of Citizens United, billionaires are now able to spend unlimited sums of money on campaigns, and they buy and sell politicians right and left.
We have got to, got to, got to get rid of this disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision and move to a public funding of elections if we're going to create a vibrant democracy and not this corrupt system that we have right now.
Bob Kinzel: You know, Bernie, I'm wondering, what do you say to moderate Democrats who feel that the policies that you're supporting will lead to a massive electoral defeat in 2026 because Republicans will try to paint the Democrats as being socialists.
Bernie Sanders: Well, what I would say is they are dead wrong. I think the issues that we are talking about and the ideas that we're bringing forth — health care is a human right, a higher education and decent child care is a human right, demanding that the wealthy and billionaires not only not get the tax breaks that Trump gave them, but start paying their fair share of taxes — widely popular. Making sure that we take care of our veterans, you know, rather than, you know, providing massive tax breaks to large corporations.
All of these ideas, Bob, these are not wild and crazy ideas. This is, in fact, exactly what the American people believe in.
Bob Kinzel: Bernie, if the "Fighting Oligarchy" tour is kind of step one in raising political awareness, what is step two? Where does the movement go from here?
I think what you're seeing all over this country is more and more people prepared to dip their toe into the political process.Sen. Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders: Well, that's a good question, Bob, and I wish I could give you all of the answers, but one of the things that we are doing is not only endorsing, and the reason I go running around the country, it's not for my health, but it's to try to give support to strong progressive candidates who will stand up to Trumpism and fight for the needs of working families.
But in addition to that, those are high profile cases, we're trying to build a movement of, often young people, working class people, to get involved in the political process, because I have always believed that real change takes place from the bottom on up, rather than the top on down.
So I think what you're seeing all over this country is more and more people prepared to dip their toe into the political process, learn how to do that. And we are, you know, literally right now, working with other organizations and training thousands of people to do that.
Bob Kinzel: You're certainly the person most identified with this movement and these issues. Is there any chance you would consider another run for president in 2028?
Bernie Sanders: Well, as you know, I have now reached my 40th birthday. I'm getting pretty old, Bob. That's a joke. Now, I'm going to be 84 pretty soon, so I don't know what kind of national political future I have at that age.
Right now, my interest is to help build a progressive movement out of which there are going to be a whole lot of very strong, great young leaders.
So it's not about me. I've run twice, proud of what we've accomplished. Right now, the goal is to build a movement to have great candidates coming up at every level of government, local, state and national level as well.
